Discussion in 'Arizona Scene' started by Robert, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Robert

    Robert New Member

    They are inspirational! Their desire to give their all to a common goal is remarkable! If only the men had half their courage, grit and determination...
  2. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Really? You really think that the men on the national team have only half the grit and determination as the women do? Grit and determination is not the issue with the men's national team. The issue is they are just not that good! You can have all the grit and determination you want, but it won't help you if you suck. There are some encouraging signs with the U-20's having performed quite well in their World Cup recently though.
    tjinaz, Grappler and Soccer Dad like this.
  3. tjinaz

    tjinaz Active Member

    Anyone else think the hype around the England team was unjustified? I mean they are a good team and an up and coming contender but the way the BBC covered them was over the top. USA has been known to pump our own tires a bit but they are much better at it. All the posturing by the coach, the side stories, the little nips at the US players and coaches. Attacking goal celebrations etc. How is etiquette even part of the conversation in this tournament? I expected the backhanded complements and coach jabs from jilted commentator Hope Solo but she was just one among many. The most ironic thing I saw was how Neville goes full on rant against Cameroon calling them "disgraceful!" for hard tackles and whining to the refs when they were losing to England then his team does the EXACT same thing against USA. Masterful job of press work by the English side.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  4. calmdown

    calmdown New Member

    A publicly funded media outlet talking up their own country’s chances in a tournament - not sure what you find so shocking about this.
    And when did England pause the game for over 3 minutes and threaten to leave the field?? VAR is tough to take, and England were on the lucky side of it against Cameroon, and on the unlucky side of it against the US - but on both occasions VAR made the right calls - what differed, was how the team’s reacted to the calls.
    The goal celebration?? Social media in particular continues to over play this. And if you want to say ‘well, Piers Morgan said’ one cares what he says. He is the type of pundit that purposely says inflaming things as he knows it gets air time and keeps him in a job. Ditto to anyone else still attempting to talk about the celebration. Move on.

    And BTW etiquette should be something cherished and preserved in sports. Look at Figo, Ramos, Casillas and others who purposely went after yellow cards in games in order to get themselves ‘sin binned’ for the following game. The governing bodies changed the rules to stop that behavior. (Edit: I thought they did, but maybe they didn’t. I know fines were given, but that’s no biggie when it’s just a 10th of your weekly salary).
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  5. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    The English always come across as being smug and superior to everyone. Love it when they lose!
    Portbhoy likes this.
  6. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Congratulations to the USWNT for winning the World Cup!
  7. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Once women can draw equal revenue, equal attendance, and achieve the same level of play as the men equal pay will be justified through market forces. Right now that simply isn't the case. The USWNT couldn't even beat 14 year old boys when they played a U-15 Boys FC Dallas team a couple of years ago.

    Winning the World Cup was a wonderful accomplishment. I don't think they will do themselves any favors by appealing to the SJW/Snowflake agenda though. The economics of it just doesn't care about feelings.
  8. calmdown

    calmdown New Member

    Equality in opportunities, pay, etc should not have to wait until market forces deem them palatable. Sometimes you just gotta do the ‘right’ thing.

    A few years ago the Norwegian FA had there men’s team paid on the same scale as the women’s. The men’s pay-cut essentially paid for the women’s pay increase. In contrast, at around the same time, the Republic of Ireland’s women’s soccer team were complaining of having to change tracksuits in airport toilets as there U23 team needed them.

    Payment for playing for club teams, men’s vs women’s, is a whole different thing and far more closely linked to the economics of demand in the market. That is almost an argument in itself why women should get paid the same as men at the National level - women's opportunities to earn a good living from professional soccer are nowhere near the same as the men’s - yet US Soccer is banking on those women to continue playing ‘cos of their love for the game’ and hope they will show up for the next World Cup. And likely win the whole thing again.
  9. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Where are you going to get the money from? Steal it from the men? The Men's World Cup generated 6 billion dollars while the Women's World Cup generated only 131 million dollars. You can avoid reality, but you can't avoid the consequences of reality. The men's game generates far more interest than the women's game. You don't have to like it, but that is reality and that is where the dollars go.
    Grappler likes this.
  10. whatithink

    whatithink Active Member

    You are confusing the issue with gross World Cup revenue. Since 2016 the WNT has generated more revenue for US Soccer than the MNT. This excludes World Cup revenue. Nike just came out and said that the WNT top is the best selling soccer top ever for them. Nobody is stealing any money here, the WNT are generating the $ that would pay them and then some.

    Society's problem is that its accepted as a norm that men get paid more than women, and that has nothing to do with market forces etc., just look at the likes of Google etc who have admitted the disparity. Its time society demonstrated that this is BS.
  11. tjinaz

    tjinaz Active Member

    I think they make it a percentage of revenue. Make it equal and each team gets paid the same relative to their draw. Done. That is the fairest way to go. Put X dollars in escrow throughout the year and at the end settle accounts.

    Likely women will make more than the men.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  12. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Your're excluding 6 billion dollars! (lol) Losing to 14 year old boys doesn't help their cause either by the way. It has nothing to do with "society". It has everything to do with audience and revenue. Even with Nike claiming such numbers, it is still peanuts compared to the men when one looks at all the top leagues in the world, tournaments like Champions League Europa League, Copa America, World Cup, and Euros. Women don't come even close to those numbers. The money simply isn't there for "equal" pay. Could make the case for women to make more, but it is a joke to think they are equal to men. They are not.
  13. whatithink

    whatithink Active Member

    What FIFA earns at the men's world cup has zero to do with US Soccer paying the USWNT or USMNT. FIFA earned $6B, the USMNT wasn't there. Of the $6B, FIFA put $400M in the pot for the teams that got there ... the USMNT wasn't there. They couldn't qualify - pathetic really.

    BTW, the USWNT went there as #1 and beat everyone. How many stars on their shirt now?

    So when I say you are confusing the issue, you are confusing the issue by bringing that into it.

    The U14 team generated zero $ for US Soccer. Again with the confusion. I imagine you know all that though.

    The issue isn't simple but also not very complex. They are not looking for equal pay at a club level, where the men make their money, but at a national level - you know that right?

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