To ODP or Not ODP

Discussion in 'Arizona Scene' started by tjinaz, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. tjinaz

    tjinaz Member

    Seeing the emails going out for August tryouts. What is the role of ODP these days when US Soccer seems to be firmly behind the DA system? Was thinking of signing up my DD just for the additional training but not sure at this point. Also what do Clubs/Coaches think of having their players going out for this? Is it encouraged as prestige for the club or seen as a way for other coaches to poach players? Want to get a feel for what the pros/cons are for this.
     
    TucsonSoccerMom likes this.
  2. Driveandpay

    Driveandpay Member

    I personally think ODP is a joke. They definitely DON'T have the best coaches out there, and the whole system is totally about the $money$. I would NOT drive to Casa Grande for that experience if you're doing it for the training. There's absolutely NO development that occurs there.
     
  3. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    I can only tell you from my experience, others might be different. The first week was awesome. Second and third weeks every practice session was cut short by a 1/2 hour. Add that over a course of a few weeks and you have another session. I felt it was a money grab. It already seemed the coaches had their players in mind prior to doing the training sessions. I felt like a got ripped off and didn't get my money's worth.
     
  4. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    My experience was the same.
     
  5. clarino

    clarino Active Member

    But you can buy a really cool and expensive sweatshirt
     
  6. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Ha! So true! So true! Save your money. Probably better off doing ID Camps than ODP in my opinion.
     
  7. yadayada

    yadayada Member

    Plain and simple, it is a revenue generation for AZYSA,
    BUT, if your child is gifted and you want them to be seen outside of DA, this is the path to take.
     
    GKdad likes this.
  8. EEdad

    EEdad New Member

    It seems to make sense that if a player is on an ECNL team, ODP wouldn’t make sense. But are there any rules/regulations that prohibit this?
     
  9. Cali

    Cali New Member

    No rules that would prohibit a ECNL player to participate in ODP unless a schedule conflict or you happen to have a coach that prohibits participation in the ODP program.

    Do you have kid that is good enough to get invited to your Region's ID Camp,? I would say, yes, ODP is worth it. On the other hand, if you have a kid that can't get past the politics of the same kids getting picked on the roster year after year, then ODP is not a good path.

    My business partner kid's, was recruited via the ODP Program and received 60% soccer scholarship to play in College. So for them, its a yes, ODP was worth it.

    But the bottom line, what does your kid want to do?
     
  10. aginaz

    aginaz Active Member

    Last year a number of ECNL kids skipped the 2nd weekend of ODP pool training in December to go to the ECNL National ID camp (which also just so happened to be in Casa Grande at the same time.)

    Most of those boys made the ODP pool. Not sure what will happen this year.

    ODP cons:
    Lots of talent has been pulled away by DA/ECNL/coaches negative attitudes towards program
    Tryouts in August
    No real practices for teams that are selected before tournament
    Politics
    Costs of being on team and pool training
    Cash grab by ASA

    ODP pros:
    Still plenty of talented kids there to challenge your kid
    Making the pool does get your kid time/experience with better players
    Training in December is now during "dead period" of club
    Tryout is only $50-$60
    Kinda cool to play for Arizona team
    Tournament is here in AZ at Reach 11
    Selected pool players can go to Region IV training camp in Idaho. All pool players are eligible for Sub-Regional camp in Flagstaff.

    All in all, my kids love the experience. They have also attended sub regional and region IV camps.

    There is no right answer for every kid. Some kids don't like the pressure, the politics, etc. It is hard for the coaches to evaluate 150+ kids in a weekend or 2. Plenty of good kids don't make the cut and plenty of lesser players do. There is probably a size bias as well.

    It is what it is.

    If your kid wants to do it I say go for it.
     
    steelerfeever and Soccer Dad like this.
  11. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Precisely! It is hard to evaluate 150 kids, so it doesn't mean those are the best players selected. The coaches more than likely go with who they know or who they are familiar with. The conflict of interest is pretty prominant. Clubs will use social media to brag to the whole world what players made ODP. Come to find out the coaches come from the same club as their players. It is a bit of a joke. Coaches there need to be totally independent of the club coaches, but it could mean more money to do that.
     
  12. Daenerys

    Daenerys New Member

    Agree it's all about the money and ODP is very political. Seemed last year that they already knew who they were going to choose as from the start they had two groups; one group of kids that they were watching and the other group of kids that they weren't watching. Even the kids knew what was up it was so obvious. Groups didn't change during the tryouts and they did the same thing during the December 'training'. I asked for feedback for my player after it was over as they had promised a written summary on request for your child ~ guess what! They didn't even have any notes on my child, maybe that's because no one was even watching my child during the tryouts. Same experience for all of the kids that we know who went there for the tryouts. Not to mention that last year's tryout in August was probably during the hottest, most HUMID weekend of the entire summer and it was gross; all the kids were SO hot and tired and I know mine was not able to play the best because the weather was so horrible. The time was during the hottest part of the day as well; I noticed that this year (2018) at least they have scheduled the time for later in the evening. To me the ODP is pretty much a joke.
     
  13. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Totally agree with you. That is the sense I got also.
     
  14. Sweeper

    Sweeper Active Member

    The ODP coaches know which players are on the top 1 or 2 teams of each age group so they are usually grouped together on one field/group at the first tryout. I don’t know if the ODP coaches know who those kids are because they have scouted them during the season or if they can tell what team they are registered on by gotsoccer.com.

    Then the rest of the players are randomly placed on other fields/groups. They do seem to have a top group, a few middle groups and then the lowest group. Some players get moved between the groups but ODP coaches focus mostly on the top group. And yes, it is very political but ODP can be a great experience for some kids.
     
  15. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Much easier to pick players on known teams than to actually evaluate the talent they have out there. So, if your child is not at least on the 1st team of their club, it might be wise to just stay home, use the money for something else soccer related. Does anyone know of any players that are on a 2nd or 3rd team of their respective clubs and actually make the final cut on ODP? Just curious... I could be totally wrong on my opinion of ODP. I am willing to admit that.

    Also, the coaches there in my opinion should totally be independent of any club involvement. Clubs use that as a marketing tool. So there is a risk of conflict of interest there.
     
  16. RavenAZ

    RavenAZ Member

    Two days of tryouts is not enough time to evaluate 100 kids. AZ ODP offers two years of YOP, and the development camp in the summer, before real ODP starts. If it weren't for both of these, I doubt the coaches would know my kid's name either. If you want to make the most of ODP, I suggest you get involved early. Just my $0.02.

    Also, good luck finding qualified coaches not associated with a club.
     
  17. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    You are right. It would be difficult. They are out there though. I know two that come to mind. The challenge would be to convince them to do it. It is bit of a joke looking at a club's Facebook page and listing the players that made ODP and come to find out the ODP coach comes from the very same club. Again, you are right that it would be difficult to find such coaches.
     
  18. GKdad

    GKdad Member

    I attended the tryouts for 06 and YOP this past weekend;

    I thought they did a fair job of splitting the 06 girls into manageable size groups to be able to get a fair gauge of which players could potentially be included in the 45 they said they are taking prior to cutting back to 18 for the final roster. I brought my daughter and one of her teammates, as my nickname on here would suggest my daughter is a GK and her teammate a field player. I did see them move a few field players from one SSG to another on day 2 as they did with the GK's both days. I very rarely saw any of the 4 SSG's on the 06G fields to have any less than 2 coaches watching at any given time for more than a couple of minutes.

    I do think YOP should be split, there were a ton of boys and girls on those fields.

    It would be great for both of the girls I brought to make the 45 or final 18 but if they don't, it was a great experience for them. They don't play at one of the mega clubs and only have one team at their age group within their home club; other than middle school soccer (coed charter school) they have not experienced a tryout like this. Getting to run alongside many girls at, below and above their skill level will serve as motivation to get better to compete with those above their level and confidence building in how high up that ladder they currently stand from those less skilled. Maybe we look at the experience and opportunity to gain in confidence or become humbled as a high value experience at something like this instead of a waste if our kid doesn't make it. It is far more likely that a player does not make it because there is someone better than then it is favoritism from a coach; in most cases the inferred favoritism is due to skill and ability. If a coach had an idea already of players they wanted to include and they tried out, seems like fair game to me. They likely have a frame of reference from real game experiences with/against that player. These coaches and their professional life is predicated on success and developing players, they are not expected to develop the ODP players so winning would be the key motivating factor in whom to choose; the players you think make the team most competitive. If we use sports to teach our kids about life in general, these can be great lessons in how the world will treat them. It's often more about who you know more than what you know or can do in the professional world, hard to fully grasp for a 10-13 year old but a lesson nonetheless.

    While I agree that 150 or so kids is a lot to evaluate in 4 hours across 2 days, it's easy to forget that talent shines and is fairly easy to see in the environment they were in. If they were not on the radar of coaches from prior experience or knowledge, they would get noticed if they were killing it on the field. The field player I brought was asked for her shirt number by multiple coaches. In my experience at a tryout like this it would be evidence they are getting the coaches attention. As I previously stated, she plays at a small club that is usually in the bronze bracket of a tourney and has never been in front of the types of coaches who are involved with ODP.

    I know of a player at the YOP level whom was invited to regional camp and the coach insinuated he was instrumental in the invite after a team he coaches got dominated in a major tournament by said player. This would lend to the thought process that it actually has to do with talent.
     
    kickit06mom likes this.
  19. Tiki-Taka-Freak

    Tiki-Taka-Freak Active Member

    Well, I can tell you having been at both large and small clubs I have personally seen players that were bad on 1st teams that shouldn't be there and players that were really good on 3rd teams that easily should have been on the 1st team. The same can be said about ODP. It does happen. Now, that is not to say there are coaches out at ODP that are truely doing their job. There just has been too many stories of favouritism to look the other way and pretend it does not happen. Some are so blatant and in your face one can only look in disbelief.
     
    GKdad likes this.
  20. aginaz

    aginaz Active Member

    Was out there sweating to death as well this past weekend, poor kids...

    A few observations. I saw a lot more "staff coaches" evaluating and less age group coaches. I know that the 2005G, 2006G & 2004B head coaches were not there at all this weekend. That's not a good look.
    The 2004 boys had a lot more groups than coaches on Saturday, again not good. There were a large number of 04 & 05 boys that tried out (125+) which was great but I heard the older ages were thin. I heard 2002 Girls had 36 kids...DA/ECNL/politics taking it's toll...

    It's a crap shoot. There will be plenty of kids that make pools that shouldn't and vice versa.

    It seems like they could pick a weekend in Oct/Nov to black out for tryouts instead of doing this is August. Plenty of kids were simply too hot to compete out there. Seems really dumb.

    My kids enjoyed themselves so what can I say. Now waiting to see if they won the lottery or not this year...
     
    GKdad likes this.

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